Drew Stanton’s future in doubt?

According to John Niyo of the Detroit News (via Twitter), the Lions are sending Drew Stanton to consult with Dr. James Andrews, the renowned orthopedic surgeon. Meanwhile, they’ve signed former Vikings QB Brooks Bollinger.

This is terrible news for Stanton fans, as his inability to stay healthy has been made even more maddening by his improving production.  Just as it looked like he had a roster spot sewn up as the Lions’ #3 QB, he may well be facing more surgery and another year on the shelf.  It’s premature to say he’s destined to lose yet another season to injury--but Dr. Andrews is the biggest name in orthopedic surgery; if it weren’t potentially serious, Drew wouldn’t be going to see him.

On the other hand, the Lions could easily have waived Drew, and given him an injury settlement, cab fare, and a firm handshake.  For them to make this kind of continued investment speaks well of the organization’s attitude toward the former second-round pick’s progress.

Discuss it here, in The Den!

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Run, Forrest!

On September 7 of '08 Michael Turner rushed for 220 yards in Matt Ryan's NFL debut, and Jerrious Norwood tacked on another 93. As a team, the Falcons rushed for 318 yards to the Lions' 70. Flash forward to August 15 '09, and we see something that Lion fans haven't seen in a very long time. A team that runs. And runs. And runs.

A lot (deservedly) has been made of Stafford's impressive debut. Culpepper's surprising nimbleness and playmaking qualities have also earned praise. So far though, there hasn't been a lot of discussion of the running game.

Detroit rushed 35 times for 191 yards. Stanton's bootleg was the key play that set up the game-winning field goal. Aaron Brown went to warp speed for his 32 yard touchdown run. Matt Stafford dragged a defender five yards for a first down. It was exciting to see and it is a dimension of the game that Detroit hasn't had since the days of Bobby Ross, excepting a few weeks with Kevin Jones.

I'm not exactly sure how excited to be about this, other than to know the commitment is there. Detroit's main backs, Aveion Cason and Allen Ervin combined for 47 yards on 17 carries, and while we know that they won't be getting the carries during the regular season - if either are even on the team - the holes that they attacked are the same holes that Smith and Morris will have to find. Barring a specialty package, Stanton's runs will be limited to running the microphone to call in plays to whichever quarterback the Lions ultimately choose. Brown's run, while exciting, was not one that will be available much during the regular season. He hit the edge quickly, but did it against rookie defenders who don't know their assignments as well as they should, and who also aren't as experienced at reading the flow of the play as well as veterans are. More often than not, Lance Briggs or Atari Bigby will be there to string the play out and limit the gain.

On the other hand, we did see a real commitment to the run. Not a hopeless effort like we've seen so many times in the last few years, but rather from a team clawing back from a deficit and getting positive yards to put the quarterback in a position to be able to make plays. Counting Culpepper's two scrambles, they ran 7 times in their first 10 plays to set up Hanson's field goal. The runs had a real purpose too, setting up the pass. They ran twice for a first down and then a screen to Kevin Smith for 11. They ran again and then took a shot at the end zone, forcing a defensive penalty and another first down. They ran twice more for short gains and then sucked in the defenders on a screen play that went for 16 more.

28 of Detroit's 35 yards came with the team behind. After Atlanta's last touchdown, Detroit came back in Stanton's first series and got the score back with six consecutive running plays, three by Ervin, one by Stanton, and the last two by Brown, including his 32 yard score. It was only in Detroit's last two possessions, running the two minute drill that the Lions abandoned the run.

After the game Jim Schwartz told Tony Ortiz that the Stanton bootleg at the end was not a called play, but rather a recognition by Stanton as the linebackers swarmed to the sidelines and the whole middle of the field parted. Culpepper's short runs and Stafford's bootleg did not appear to be designed either, but it is clear from their games that both like to run and get hit. Culpepper gained an extra yard on his drive by initiating contact and carrying the play forward. Stafford told Ortiz that getting hit is a part of the game that he enjoys, that it helps to bring things into focus.

I'm nowhere close to calling this a new paradigm. Detroit also rushed 35 times in last year's exhibition opener against the Giants. It is probably the nature of exhibition, particularly the first game, to just get out there and bang a little and then get the game over with. Even so, we saw some purpose to the running game yesterday that has been missing from the Lion arsenal for years.

Agree? Disagree? Have something to say? Discuss it Here, in The Den.

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Oh, No, They Say Drew’s Got To Go . . .

On Saturday, new Den forum poster cajunrajan shared his firsthand observations from Lions training camp.  Especially interesting was his take on the quarterbacks:

“Culpepper was on fire all day long.  He was hitting everything.  Definitely his job to lose.  Stafford was fine, and hit most of his passes, but also had a few shaky ones that simply were not good throws. However, the ball comes off his arm like a missile, his arm strength is incredible.  Stanton was terrible.  He can't hit the broad side of the barn, and he had one insanely bad interception which Anthony Henry took the other way for a TD.”

Perhaps in response to that last line, poster reneboater started a new discussion entitled “Stanton Must Go!”:

“This is his 3rd year and he just doesn't seem to impress. He would be a wasted roster space with no future! Pick someone who can step in should he be needed!”

It’s certainly tempting to watch Drew Stanton practice, and decide that he doesn’t have what it takes to play quarterback in the NFL.  It’s fairly obvious that that’s what Jim Colletto and Rod Marinelli did in 2008—remember Colletto’s line that he wouldn’t want Drew to “embarrass himself”?  It’s true, Stanton’s arm is extremely inconsistent.  Sometimes, he can place a deep out with zip.  Often, he either doesn’t place the ball, or it doesn’t get there with zip.  Occasionally, he can’t make that throw at all.  With DS, you have to expect that extraordinarily gifted throwers like Stafford and Culpepper will show him up in shorts-and-T-shirt work (observers report Saturday’s practices were not in pads).  However, Drew Stanton’s worth is not in what he does in 7-on-7.  The reason Drew Stanton deserves a spot on the Detroit Lions roster is for what he does in games.

In case anyone forgot, let me remind you of his 2008 preaseason stats.  Drew went 7-of-8, for 85 yards and a TD, including a 50-yard bomb that landed right in Brandon Middleton’s breadbasket.  As most should remember, what very, very little regular season work Drew got in 2008 involved hitting paydirt with his first NFL pass.  Drew’s a gamer, and you can’t really evaluate him without taking that into account.  Schwartz himself has said so:

"He flashes. He hasn't been quite as consistent as I'd like at times,'' Schwartz said of Stanton. "The one thing that's going to happen with Drew is that Drew isn't the classic drop-back passer. He's going to make plays off-schedule a little bit and sometimes you don't see that at practice. You don't see the quarterback scrambling around in practice and extend the play and tuck the ball and run and those things. Those are the plays he made in college, that sort of defined him as a quarterback, that he could make those plays. We'll see that a little bit more when we get to preseason games. It's a little bit hard to read that style of quarterbacks in the stuff we're doing out here because you're throwing everything from the pocket in practice."

It’s obvious that the Lions are considering adding a more experienced arm to the mix, having worked out Cleo Lemon, Craig Nall, and Brooks Bollinger on the eve of camp.  Stanton’s chances diminish further if Duante is leading the Lions to a successful season; they’d have no experienced backup as they hit the homestretch.  However, so far the Lions have made no moves, and Stanton remains on the roster.  Once the armor is donned, the lights go on, and the Lions face the enemy in preseason battle, Drew Stanton will get the opportunity to prove he can make plays and win games for this team—and might face the Turk if he can’t.

Discuss it here, in The Den!

Lions work out 3 QBs -- should any current QB worry?

Nick Cotsonika at Freep.com reports that the Lions worked out three veteran QBs on Tuesday - Cleo Lemon, Craig Nall and Brooks Bollinger.

Lemon rode the bench in Jacksonville last year (that's where the Lions' recent signee, CB Will James, was too. Is former Jax front office guru Shack Harris on a Jag jag?).

Nall was briefly with the Texans last year; Brooks Bollinger -- who we all remember from his days with the Wisconsin Badgers -- got in a game for the Cowboys last year when Tony Romo was hurt.

The Lions' flirtation with adding a veteran QB is something a few of us have speculated could happen before camp, given Drew Stanton's wobbly performances in earlier workouts.

But MLive.com's Tom Kowalski throws another wrinkle out there -- Daunte Culpepper's contract is structured so that he makes the vast majority of his money this year if he's on the roster for the first game of the regular season.

The Lions restructured the deal that one way for one reason - to give them an "out'' if they didn't want Culpepper on the roster for the start of the regular season - and also to protect against a training camp injury.

From all accounts though, Culpepper's come in his best shape in years, and with a hungry-to-succeed attitude. It seems far-fetched to believe he could be dumped from being the starter or backup to Matthew Stafford. But C-Pep does have an injury history, and should he suffer another bad one in the preseason, it looks like the Lions are trying to cover their bases.

They're talking about it in The Den!

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Position Battles: Offensive Backfield

As we close in on training camp I thought it would be fun to take a look at the different position groupings and discuss some of the position battles we have to anticipate. I'm going to concentrate a little more on more off-the-grid fights. Stafford versus Culpepper is certainly compelling, but that has already gotten a great deal of digital ink, and will certainly get a great deal more.

Third Quarterback

Drew Stanton v Himself. If there is any role on this team that is the cliche 'player's job to lose' it is this one. There has been a lot of disagreement both in The Den as well as in the popular press, talk shows, and ... well ... everywhere about whether Stanton has gotten a fair shake. Really that is all irrelevant though, going into this season. He has every opportunity to make enough of an impression on Schwartz and Linehan that they will be comfortable with him as the backup QB if the need arises. If the Lions start shopping for veteran backups in August then Stanton is probably bound for points Calgary.

Third Running Back

There seems to be little likelihood that 34k or Morris can be dislodged from their positions at the top of the depth chart so that probably leaves one spot for third back, with the potential for a fourth who can also return kicks.

The contenders:

Aaron Brown. The recently signed 6th rounder out of Texas Christian is somewhat unlikely to make the team on the back of his running skills. He alternated with Joe Turner last year at TCU, displaying some breakaway skills and receiving ability, so there may be some potential for him to develop into a 3rd down back. Brown appears to have been drafted for his kick return skills. He finished 8th in the country in KR average (over 10 attempts) while returning a handful of punts with more modest success. If Brown breaks camp with the team he will likely be the primary kickoff returner.

Allen Ervin. A rare holdover from 2008, Ervin was something of a training camp favorite last year before landing on the practice squad. He was never activated during 2008 and appears to be a significant longshot to make the team.

Aveion Cason. Long time veteran whose flexible range of modest skills see him popping back up on the roster every year or two. Perhaps (hopefully), this is the year that Detroit is able to replace him permanently. With the drafting of Brown and Derrick Williams, as well as the trade for Dennis Northcutt it appears that Mayhew/Schwartz place a premium on upgrading the return game, a goal that obviously bodes ill for Cason. Cason's best chance to secure a roster spot is probably as an in-season roster replacement, a role he has filled repeatedly. In his five Lion seasons he has only broken camp with the team one time.

Antone Smith. A message board favorite. An undrafted free agent out of Florida State he was a priority signing by the Lions after the draft. He led the Seminoles with 15 touchdowns in '08, complemented by a somewhat modest rushing total. At 5'8" , #190 Smith is a smaller back, fast but unlikely to break any stopwatches. Football Outsiders developed a metric called Speed Score that has a reasonable correlation to future NFL success for running backs (Bill Barnwell discusses it a bit Here). With a speed score of a bit under 98 Smith is a bit behind the curve. As a one cut runner lacking much elusiveness his NFL potential is fairly limited. He is probably more of a practics squad candidate than a true competitor for a roster spot.

If it appears that I am a little dim on the prospects for third running back out of this group it is because I am. Perhaps one of the younger guys will surprise and force his way on to the roster.

Fullbacks

Jerome Felton. The Lions could keep either one or both of these guys, so this may not be a true battle. Felton impressed enough to win the starting job in Colleto's offense to begin the year, before getting hurt and ceding the spot to Moran Norris. As a second year player Felton is probably a decent favorite to make the roster and would probably have to lose his spot at this point.

Terrelle Smith. Fresh from starting in the Super Bowl for Arizona Smith joined the Lions as a long-time veteran, having blocked for Deuce McAllister early in his career, Edgerrin James late, with a regular job with the Browns in between. Smith is an accomplished special teamer and a solid blocker and provides a very good option in the event that Felton is injured or cut.

Tomorrow: The wide receivers.

Discuss it Here in The Den.

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Delmas could end the Lions' decade of disappointment in second round

Dean Holden at NFLTouchdown.com calls 2009 Lions second-round pick, S Louis Delmas, one of the most promising second-rounders to hit Detroit in a long time.

While former Lions president Matt Millen's failures in the first round of the draft were well-publicized, he was also rather awful in the second rounds. Holden notes that Delmas could break a string of second-round picks that range from careers cut short by injury to not reaching their potential to somewhat disappointing to brutally bad.

Kind of a lengthy post, with analysis of each year's second-rounders since 2000, so I won't copy-and-paste here. I urge you to follow the link and give it a read.

With the exception of Dominic Raiola and Shaun Rogers in the second round of 2001, it's been pretty darn close to a whiff. Too soon to say that about the recent choices like Ikaika Alama-Francis and Jordon Dizon, but they haven't exactly lit things up. And Drew Stanton? He still has his believers, but ...

Discuss in The Den!

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Killer: Stanton should stick with team -- thanks to Stafford

Tom Kowalski at MLive.com points out that a few months ago, the Lions expressed interest in acquiring a veteran QB for depth. Now they seem to have put that on hold. Killer says some of that has to do with Stanton's development, but most of it has to do with rookie QB Matthew Stafford's development.

Stanton is still the same guy he was when he arrived in Detroit - erratic. His passing is inconsistent and he'll throw a spiral on one play and a duck on the next. But Stanton is a gamer and he won't always look pretty but he's been generally effective during his brief game appearances. Even head coach Jim Schwartz said it's tough to evaluate Stanton in practice because he's not a classic drop-back passer.

The real issue here is what the Lions are looking for out of their No. 3 quarterback. Before and after the draft, the Lions talked about adding a veteran backup because they weren't sure how quickly Stafford would be ready. They didn't want to get into a situation where Daunte Culpepper would start the season and then get hurt and then be forced to go with a raw rookie.

That situation has changed. The Lions are now very confident that Stafford will be ready for the start of the regular season (I still think he'll be the starter against New Orleans - or very soon afterward). That changes the role at No. 3 because the Lions don't need an experienced player there.

I buy that logic. But Killer also says the Lions could still look to sign a veteran QB they like and plan to hold onto longer term. He points out that Culpepper is only signed for one year. This I doubt more. I think the Lions are pretty happy with Culpepper's off-season performance and commitment level, and could look to keep him around. I'm not sure what veteran QBs are available out there that would be a huge upgrade over C-Pep.

Talk about it in The Den!

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Culpepper says he's 100-percent healthy in camp for first time since before monster '04 season

Wouldn't it just be the Lions' luck that they take a QB first overall, pay him the largest rookie contract in NFL history by far, and then Daunte Culpepper returns to his elite play from his days with Randy Moss in Minnesota?

Associated Press football writer Larry Lage, reporting from the Lions' mini-camp, talked with C-Pep:

"This is the first time I've been 100 percent going into camp since 2004," he said, referring to the season in which he threw 39 TDs for the Vikings. "I feel great."

Matthew Stafford's feeling great, too, though. He told Lage he's still preparing with the idea that he'll be ready to start in Week 1.

MLive.com's Tom Kowalski reported on the Lions' two-minute drills from camp yesterday. Both Culpepper and Stafford had their highlights -- C-Pep hitting Calvin Johnson on a 40-yard bomb (though Killer says it wasn't a great ball and Calvin adjusted on it); Stafford zipping completions to a few different receivers. But neither quarterback got the ball into the end zone, and Stafford had a ball batted at the line and an interception, Killer reports.

Then there's Drew Stanton. Killer says ... uh ... not that good. And Coach Jim Schwartz seemed to concur.

"He flashes. He hasn't been quite as consistent as I'd like at times,'' Schwartz said of Stanton. "The one thing that's going to happen with Drew is that Drew isn't the classic drop-back passer. He's going to make plays off-schedule a little bit and sometimes you don't see that at practice. You don't see the quarterback scrambling around in practice and extend the play and tuck the ball and run and those things. Those are the plays he made in college, that sort of defined him as a quarterback, that he could make those plays. We'll see that a little bit more when we get to preseason games. It's a little bit hard to read that style of quarterbacks in the stuff we're doing out here because you're throwing everything from the pocket in practice."

Anybody who thinks that sounds good for Stanton's chances to stick with the team ... well, you must be a very strong Stanton fan and a very positive thinker.

Discuss in The Den!

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Another ex-Lion indicts last year's coaching staff, without really trying

Earlier this week we had former Lion Jonathan Scott saying the coaching staff under Rod Marinelli was not on the same page, leading to confusion for players. This is a little more subtle than that, but still doesn't sound too good. In a Houston Chronicle article today on former Lions QB Dan Orlovsky there's this:

Orlovsky credits coach Gary Kubiak for making him emphasize his footwork during the ongoing organized team activities at Reliant Park. “That’s something I had never experienced before, never had coached that way,” Orlovsky said. “It’s going to be a big adjustment for me, but I can see differences already when I try to do that."

Dan-O never had his footwork emphasized by coaches in training? Maybe this explains the Drew Stanton situation better than anything. Among the things that make this interesting is that former Lions quarterbacks coach Scott Loeffler landed at the University of Florida, where he's now trying to make Tim Tebow pro-ready. Talk about it in The Den!

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OTA Notes

Dave Birkett with a couple of Blog posts from the OTAs reports.

Stafford got reps with the second team with somewhat predictable results. Very good in one-on-one drills, shakier with the full team stuff. It's difficult to be either impressed or dismayed considering he is working with rookies who won't make the team. There is little doubt of what Stafford is capable of, but much more doubt about how well or quickly he will be able to translate his capabilities into consistent production. That question certainly won't be answered by the end of OTAs, and possibly not before 2010.

Birkett also notes that Schwartz was complimentary of Drew Stanton, but the compliments seemed a bit backhanded. I get the distinct impression that Stanton has no chance of keeping a roster spot through the summer. On the other hand, despite months of reports that the Lions are hunting for a veteran backup QB they haven't even brought one in for a conversation. I suspect that Shwartz and Mayhew want to define Stafford's role before they find their third quarterback. Will Stafford be the primary backup or the primary clipboard caddy? Another question for July, not May.

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